Golden Touch Craps

Post of the Month - DragonBoatRacer:

Are dice influencers losing money when they don't set for the 7 on the come out?

DragBoatRacer - 08:07am Mar 15, 2009 PT
GTC Chicago '08. Refreshed AC '09, POM March '09 30 Roll Club

Once we have reached a level that we have an advantage are we costing ourselves money when we do not set for the seven on the come out?

In Jerry "Stickman's" most recent article he makes reference to the fact that and I quote, "Many craps players do not know that the low house edge on the Pass Line bet comes from a two-to- one advantage on the come-out. Here is how it works. On come-out a 7 or 11 wins the pass line bet, a 2, 3, or 12 loses. Out of 36 possible combinations of the two dice there are 6 ways to throw a 7 (1-6, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, and 6-1) and 2 ways to throw an 11 (5-6 and 6-5) for a total of 8 ways to win the pass line bet on come-out. There is one way to throw a 2 (1-1), two ways to throw a 3 (1-2, and 2-1), and 1 way to throw a 12 (6-6) for a total of 4 ways to lose the pass-line bet. There are eight ways to win versus four ways to lose – a 2-to-1 advantage on come-out. Once a point is established, the edge swings dramatically to the house.

I was asked recently what happens to the house edge for someone who can reduce the number of 7’s to something less than 6 in 36 – or more simply – 1 in 6. Since the appearance of the 7 on come-out adds so much to the player edge, reducing its appearance should reduce its favorable impact in the come-out cycle. However, reducing the 7 during the point cycle will reduce the house edge for that portion of the pass line total edge."

The entire article may be read at www.goldentouchcraps.com/stickman-032.shtml

Since there are eight ways to win on the come out, why do we not try to throw the seven to make money? This 2 to 1 advantage is why we do not make "crap check" bets because we already have the odds in our favor.

Of course setting for the seven on the come out would not be beneficial for those who have come bets or have friends with come bets up. Also we are taught to focus and get into the "zone" attempting to NOT throw any sevens during the entire roll. It may be a mind set to repeat ever roll identical to the previous roll thus using a hardway or other preferred set each and every time. Setting for the seven may have its place at the beginning of a new shooters roll when no points or come bets have been established. As a friend reminded me the dice have no memory and they don't know how they were set before the throw. Thus if you can set for all 7s and be successful; your chosen set should be working as well. What do others think and do you ever change sets? .

Bruce

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Post of Distinction - Timmer:

Vegas Trip Report: The GTC Way - Dealer Bets, Tipping And Using The "Magic Words"

Timmer - 07:55pm Mar 22, 2009 PT
Post Of The Month, Post Of Distinction, Gold Chipper, "Enchilada", 37-Roll Club, Point-7-Out Club

VEGAS TRIP REPORT: THE GTC WAY - DEALER BETS, TIPPING AND USING THE “MAGIC WORDS”

This report may be a little different from what is usually in trip report posts. I want to focus on the positive experiences I had in Las Vegas recently, that were surely a direct result of doing things the “GTC Way”- with an addition. – That is, dealer tipping and the additional use of the “Magic Words”.

I’m a believer in the “Golden Rule” of doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. In other words, treat other people the same way you wish to be treated. You’ve likely heard “What goes around comes around” or, “Good things happen to good people”, or similar sayings. We can all come up with more of these I’m sure. What they all are essentially saying is if you treat people with kindness and respect, it will come back to you. In spades! I also believe doing this emulates the core values of what GTC teaches. Just take a look at Dominator’s 20 Commandments. Hopefully this trip report will show just how true and powerf ul the GTC philosophy is!

Well, here’s my story… Six of us – myself, my two brothers and our spouses recently met up for a week in Las Vegas. We all stayed at one of the nicer resort/casinos on the strip. The casino we were staying at has been described as having "our GTC kind" of craps tables. But supposedly the dealers there, especially those on the evening shift, were known to give “heat” to controlled shooters.

While we primarily played at our “home” casino, over the course of the week we also played craps at five other casinos on the strip. One afternoon we also played at several places on Fremont which had been recommended by fellow GTCers as having decent craps tables.

At every session at all casinos, and each time I was the shooter a $1.00 bet was made for the dealers next to my pass line bet. I also made it a point to loudly proclaim “Dealers on the line” each time the stickman pushed the dice my way. Doing this allowed me to acknowledge the dealer’s “thank you’s” for the bet by saying “you’re welcome” each and every time I was thanked by the dealers. I added a second $1.00 dealer bet to my pass line odds bet as well.

There may be some confusion for some about dealer bets and tipping worth clearing up here. First, there is no rule or requirement that your bet for the dealers be at or above the table minimum. In other words, when playing at a $5.00 or $10.00 table, a $1.00 bet (or more) made for the dealers is perfectly acceptable, generous and welcomed! So now there’s no excuse that you can’t afford to tip or place a bet for the dealers!
Secondly, at most if not all Vegas casinos there is no difference between a pass line or odds bet made for the dealers and a “hardways” or “crazy crapper” bet made for the dealers as to how the tokes (tips) are distributed. While at one time at least one of the well known Vegas strip casinos gave dealer bets won on the “hardways” directly to the individual table crews or to just the craps pit, that is no longer the case. All dealer “tokes” are pooled and divided among all dealers working a given shift at the casino. (There may be exceptions to this “toke distribution procedure” that I’m sure will be commented on.) Of course tips for the dealers can be made by simply dropping a portion of your winnings on the table and saying, “This is for the dealers”.

Well, on with my story. - One evening we were playing at our “home” casino on the strip. I was the SR1 shooter and having a pretty good roll, by this point in the mid-20’s. Needless to say I had been adding regular dealer bets alongside my pass line and odds bets.

At our end of the table was one of the most annoying people you could ever imagine having at a craps table or elsewhere! This woman was constantly shouting at the dealers in her whiny, high-pitched heavily accented, almost unintelligible voice as she repetitively threw down late bets or demanded to be paid before the dealer had worked his way to her, etc. I’m being quite kind in my description of her here!

After warning her three or four, or five times to stop making late bets, the dealer, referring to me, told the annoying woman - “Ma’am, don’t interrupt a good shooter in the middle of a roll.” Keep in mind that I had been placing dealer tips and using the Magic Words “please” and “thank you” regularly.

Although having now been warned repeatedly, “annoying woman” of course threw out another late bet when the dice were out. The dealer called out “no bet” to her just before I threw. Well, “annoying woman” went ballist ic and began angrily hurling insults at the dealer, who sternly yet professionally reminded her she had been warned several times not to make bets after the dice were out.

By this time she had agitated both the crew and everyone at the table.

The final straw came a few minutes later as I was putting odds on my come bet that had just resolved. Incredibly, “annoying woman” claimed it was her come bet! Although several other players assured her it was my bet, she wouldn’t back down. After arguing back and forth with her several times about it, I suggested she “check the tape”. Thankfully the dealer stepped in, telling her he had also seen me make the bet. Well, this still didn’t shut her up, I finally threw her two nickel chips and said “enough.”

Now completely out of control, “annoying woman” began to argue with the table supervisor about the dealer. After not getting anywhere with the supervisor, she demanded to speak to the pit boss. A few minutes more arguing with the pit boss, “annoying woman” finally gave up and stormed off.

There is a point to telling this long-winded story about the annoying woman. A short time after she had stormed off and after he consulted with our dealer, the table supervisor apologized to me for the incident. He insisted on paying me back the $10.00 I had given to “annoying woman,” apologized yet again and sincerely requested that I let him know if there was anything more he could do for me. By the way, my roll ended at a profitable 37!

I believe the way this incident was handled by the casino personnel, along with my receiving absolutely no “heat” or criticism at any casino for the entire week are great examples of the power of the GTC philosophy and doing things the “GTC Way”. In fact, I was complimented by one dealer who said “Now, there’s a perfect throw”. (It was a pretty nice one!)

Following the GTC philosophy of making dealer bets and/or tipping, along with using the Magic Words “please” and “thank you” can be incredibly powerful tools to aid us as GTC advantage players.

Like it or not, along with being taught the skills and “secrets” of GTC dice control and advantage play comes the responsibility of being an ambassador and representing GTC. Our actions are viewed not only by casino personnel, but by other players as well. Our positive attitude, conduct and professionalism (or lack of it) will also impact on our fellow GTCers who may visit that casino in the future.

The real secret to this is, Our conduct and doing things the “GTC Way” will seem like a breath of fresh air to casino personnel who are used to routinely have to deal with drunk, rude, obnoxious “patrons” of their casinos. By not tipping or being polite by using the "Magic Words", is it possible that we are bringing “heat” upon ourselves? I’ll bet that it is not only possible, but probable...

How do you wish to be treated by others???

So, if you haven’t been practicing the “GTC Way” of making dealer bets, tipping and additional use the “Magic Words” I suggest you give it a try. I’ll wager you’ll be most pleased with the results!!!

Oh, did I mention I left Vegas with a nice $$4-digit$$ addition to my 401G? - Sweet!!!

Thank you for reading this post... Heh!
Timmer